That’s the enduring advice that the Zambian multi-talented filmmaker had to share in our Zoom call interview.

Canicius also shared how important community and mentorship is to him, as he follows in his older brother’s cinematic footsteps, while at the same time, paving his own way. In addition, he praised the impact that “god of lighting”, Justyn Davis had on him when tyey met in the Lagod Lighting Masterclass.

All this and more in our incredible talk on all things film, editing, camera, and more, from the heart of Zambia. Tune in and enjoy!

Connect with Canicius:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/canitheegreat/

Lagos Lighting Masterclass: https://www.instagram.com/lagoslightingclass/

Caniciua’s latest film: SERGEANT 067 :

Thanks for reading, and for watching!

Her television credits include top hits such as America's Next Top Model, Project Runway, Top Chef, and Big Brother. Her podcast credits include the Webby-nominated Red Table Talk, the 2023 Ambie-nominated Navigating Narcissism, and Image Unscripted for the NAACP.

A former Executive Producer of Podcasts at Westbrook Media, Fallon now builds shows and manages talent on her own terms. She serves on the Board of Governors of The Podcast Academy and is a member of the Producers Guild of America.

CONNECT WITH FALLON JETHROE

🌐 Website
📱 Social Media on all platforms: @FallonJethroe & @HelloFallonEnt

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He joins me to demystify all things filmmaking for new and curious storytellers. You can connect with Israel on his socials below.

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Born in Mwanza, studied Film and TV production, in which he holds a certificate from Bagamoyo, he works as a screenwriter, director and producer. he lives in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. He is a member of the Nafasi Film Club (NFC).

He has directed short films and documentaries. His films have been selected in different international film festivals.

He owns ROCKCITY PICTURES, an independent Production Company based in Dar es Salaam. (Johnny-Hendrix.My.Canva.Site)

The new podcast interview is live!

Tune into Josiah’s Voice: Film Podcast on YouTube, and on all major listening platforms!

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CONNECT WITH JOHNNY HENDRIX

Website: https://johnny-hendrix.my.canva.site/?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/im_hendrix/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpo_v-vil6dbhBUXLtxzSZg

Rock City Pictures (IG): https://www.instagram.com/rockcitypictures/

More podcast episodes: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/josiahsvoicefilmpodcast

Thank you for watching!

Enjoy my interview transcript with Jamie Nash, screenwriter, professor, and prolific author of various works, including: Save the Cat Writes for TV, Save the Cat Writes Horror, and the Save the Cat Beatsheet Workbook. I’ve revised this podcast transcript to keep as much of Jamie’s authentic voice intact while tightening for readability and clarity. You will find these portions of the Apple Podcast interview (above) at timestamps 13:44 and 29:12.

JOSIAH: Why do you think making Horror movies resonated with you so much?

JAMIE: As I got more interested in film, I realized it is the space where I really saw that do-it-yourself (DIY) aspect. When I got older in my college years, the do-it-yourself aspect really appealed to me!

I love, love, love it [DIY], like to a crazy level. One of my biggest hobbies or interests is behind-the-scenes stories and movies.

To the point where I was on a podcast once, and they said, We do top topics. You get to pick the topic in movies. And the thing I picked was behind-the-scenes books because I’ve read them all. And I don’t think there was one that the host who researched stumped me with.

I had read them all. I just loved them, and it doesn’t matter if I’ve seen the movie. I will pick behind the scenes. I love the drama of development.

I just watched three episodes of The Movies That Made Us on Netflix. It just came out yesterday (at the time of this interview), and I’m done already because I just can’t get enough of that stuff. So with horror movies, you know, I couldn’t get enough of like reading the behind-the-scenes of Evil Dead and behind-the-scenes of Halloween or something like that.

Like that kind of stuff, I am just crazy for. And the do-it-yourself aspect always appealed to me. Honestly, later on in life, it’s what appealed to me about Star Wars.

I can kind of see the string. You know, I saw the strings in Star Wars, and that do-it-yourself mentality is just so impressive and inspiring to me that I think something about that always appealed to me with the horror aspect of things.

JOSIAH: I also like BTS books or behind-the-scenes books from writers or on movies. And I was just wondering, did you have just a few that you’d recommend to people? And why did you get into that so much?

JAMIE: Yeah, the truth of the matter is, I’m not exactly sure why I love those things so much, but I do, I do. Cause the other thing, strangely enough, I’m into, and I don’t read these as much anymore. I like the behind-the-scenes of everything!

So I read like every behind-the-scenes wrestling book, professional wrestling book I could get my hands on. I don’t even like wrestling that much. Like, I don’t watch it that much, but for some reason I’ve always been fascinated by the business.

JOSIAH: I remember you mentioning that on an episode [of Writers/Blockbusters podcast], come to think of it.

JAMIE: It just fascinates me. It has this weird Punk Rock mentality to the whole thing. And it’s another DIY kind of business where these guys, you know, they’re doing the stuff, and I don’t know…

JOSIAH: And it’s performance and persona.

JAMIE: Yeah, and just how they got there and how they, you know, sacrifice their lives to get there and stuff. To me, those stories are really fascinating. So anyway, so I’m into all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff.

So I’m not really sure why, except I probably got bitten with that. Except I’m super curious about things and lives I haven’t led or something like that. But with the movie stuff, I mean, obviously, because I work in the business and these are like my heroes and stuff to an extent, you know, that’s a big part of it.

And to get context on these things I love is always a lot of fun.

So which ones do I like?

It’s kind of funny. Some of them are relatively mundane. I’m a big fan of this guy Rinzler. I think it’s J.W. Rinzler.

And the funny thing about him is, he would not probably be your go-to guy because he’s kind of like the McDonald’s of these books. But he worked for Lucasfilm for a while.

He creates these big, almost like coffee table books. So I have one about Indiana Jones. And he did one for each of the first Star Wars films.

And they’re really thick. And when he did them, in some ways, it’s one of these things that if you go back and read them now, you’ll be like, Oh, I already knew that. Oh, I saw that picture.

Because a lot of people took from his book and then made blog articles and stuff like that. But he broke a lot of things down that I had never heard of before. And he did it in such a way that it had photos, it had call sheets, it did a day-by-day breakdown of what they shot. You know, it had the whole development. So there are some of my favorites.

If you get a hold of the Rinzler books - and they’re easy to get, you can get them from your library.

After he left Lucasfilm, he did one on Aliens. He has one on Planet of the Apes. He has a whole bunch of them.

But the best ones, in my opinion, are the three Star Wars ones and the Raiders one. They’re all really good, each for different reasons. So they’re the ones that are kind of my McDonald’s versions of them.

There are two that I can think of off the top of my head that I really liked. And I can’t think of their titles off the top of my head.

I could tell you what the movies are about, and then you’ll be able to find them. One was about, I think it was called the Battle for Brazil, which was the Terry Gilliam movie, Brazil. And that had a lot of ins and outs as far as its development.

And he had a battle against the studio to get it released. So Terry Gilliam is just kind of a fascinating character. So likewise, another thing I’m into, there was a documentary for Terry Gilliam called Lost in La Mancha.

And it was about him making Man of La Mancha. And eventually, the movie got shut down, and it’s a documentary about that whole process. And Brazil is a great movie if you haven’t seen it.

So when I was in college, like Terry Gilliam was my guy. Like, he was a heavily influential kind of guy. Fantasy, sci-fi, Time Bandits, Adventures of Baron Munchausen, Brazil, Fisher King.

You know, I’m a huge fan of Terry Gilliam. His movies were very influential for me when I was in college.

And then there’s one about Blade Runner that’s quite good too. And I can’t think of what that’s called, but I love them all. I mean, I just read the Chinatown one, which was really good. Yeah, I think I read a Godfather one not too long ago.

I mean, I’ll read anything. Some of the classic ones like that just are generally about behind-the-scenes stuff. There’s Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, if you’ve ever heard of that one. I’d highly recommend that one. That’s about the whole 70s movement.

If I were gonna recommend one, that’s the one to read. That’s almost like the classic. ‘Cause that’s about all those guys.

It’s about Scorsese, Lucas Milius, Spielberg, of course. De Palma, all those guys. And that one is really, really good.

It’s also about Easy Rider, and it dives into Heaven’s Gate, which is, if you’ve never heard of it, that was this classic movie. Like when I was a kid, it was the biggest bust of all time.

Like it was kind of like, it kind of ended the era of the author or filmmaker. Because it was this huge Western by the guy who did, Deer Hunter, and his next movie was this movie, Heaven’s Gate. And it was a Western, and it was like one of the most expensive movies of all time, the runaway budget, and then it was a bust.

And that’s kind of what gave way to the Jaws and the Star Wars and the Spielberg and all that stuff that happened in the 80s. And the studios kind of took more control, and the blockbuster movie came back.

Michael Cimino, that’s it! So that’s a classic.

And then there was another one that I don’t know how well this one is aged, but it’s kind of a hit piece in some ways. That same author, I think it’s Peter Biskin, wrote one about Miramax’s rise in the early 90s. How they like dominated everything.

And that’s a really thick book, but a very interesting read. Because Miramax just kind of dominated the whole indie slash studio space in that 90s era. And that book [Down and Dirty Pictures], I’ve read that book multiple times.

And now that I’ve discussed all this, the one book that I always recommend when I talk about this stuff just popped into my head.

And it’s The Man Who Heard Voices. And it’s “our buddy'“ M.Night. And it’s a book about him making Lady in the Water. That is a fascinating book and an easy read.

Because if you don’t know, Lady in the Water was kind of the movie that sort of ended his streak, so to speak.

JOSIAH: I’m trying to remember the timeline. That sounds about right.

JAMIE: Yeah, yeah. And he left his studio, and he kind of pushed it. Like nobody really liked it.

And it’s a really interesting movie about a director kind of following through with his vision. And maybe ego versus art kind of thing going on. It might be a bit of a cynical take, but it’s not too cynical that it gets in the way of the story.

But that’s another one I’ve read multiple times because I find it kind of fascinating. So they’re the ones. They’re the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

There’s probably a million more. Like I said, I could do a whole podcast on this topic alone because it’s like one of my favorites.

More Film Book Recommendations

1. Story by Robert McKee

2. The Making of Star Wars

3. Save the Cat Writes for TV

4. Save the Cat Writes Horror

5. Independent Ed (Josiah’s pick)

6. Stranger Things: Worlds Turned Upside Down (Josiah’s pick)

7. Rebel Without A Crew (Josiah’s pick)

8. Hollywood Black: The Stars, the Films, the Filmmakers (Josiah’s pick)

9. “Aren’t You Gonna Die Someday?” Elaine May’s Mikey and Nicky (Josiah’s pick)

(I still need to read “Aren’t You Gonna Die Someday?”. I bought it immediately after watching Mikey and Nicky, but life got in the way, and now it’s collecting dust in a pile of books.)

If you enjoyed listening to my podcast interview with him, you have to check out his screenwriting analysis with his friends on their show, Writers/Blockbusters! And definitely read his book, Save the Cat Writes for TV, it’ll blow your mind, I love that book!

And check out my earlier post with Jamie Nash linked below.

Keep creating, everyone!

I Too, Crave Death.

You can also enjoy watching episodes of Josiah’s Voice: Film Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Enjoy the discussion, and keep creating!

Get early access to podcast videos, VIP uploads, and more on my Patreon!
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/josiahsvoice

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Let's connect!

Get early access to videos, VIP uploads, and more on my Patreon!
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📧 Business Inquiries & Film Coaching: JosiahBWrites@gmail.com

Meet Toni P. a Los Angeles, California native, Story Producer for independent and Hollywood, and the founder and creator of Queens of Production.

Queens of Production is an online resource hub not only for young producers like Toni, but for new filmmakers seeking training, job opportunities, and community at every level of film in Los Angeles, both indie and Hollywood alike.

Her credits include MAX’s Legendary S2, My Killer Body with K Michelle, and MACRO/Roku’s The Next Black Millionaires, and CULTURE COUTURÉ PODCAST.

In this conversation, Toni P. shares her wealth of knowledge rising through the ranks in independent and Hollywood productions, and the lessons she has learned about the film industry before and post-Covid, from her peers and especially, her mentors in the business. Viewers will definitely want to take notes on this podcast!

You can follow Queens of Production on Instagram and their YouTube channel.

You can also enjoy watching episodes of Josiah’s Voice: Film Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Enjoy the discussion, and keep creating!

Her credits and accomplishments include the Oscar-nominated (15 categories) smash hit, Sinners, Creed III, and Everything, Everywhere, All At Once.

She is the founder of Editbae Post and teaches film editing at the Black Girls Film Camp. She is currently developing various projects like the upcoming BTS Film Festival, which recently paid tribute to the masterful work of Hype Williams (Belly).

Today on the podcast, Chassidy brings her wealth of knowledge on not only editing craft and technology, but also building community.

You can also enjoy watching episodes of Josiah’s Voice: Film Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Enjoy the conversation, and keep creating!

In this interview, Bryan demystifies screenwriting, collaboration in the film industry, and shares gems for how to work under pressure to deliver an amazing story - and get rehired. Enjoy the conversation!

Connect with Bryan:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thehilladministration3773
X: https://x.com/bryanedwardhill?s=21
IG: https://www.instagram.com/bryanehill/

You can also enjoy watching episodes of Josiah’s Voice: Film Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Keep creating!

Start, take action, and keep going.

I don’t post all my videos here. Watch more on my YouTube channel.

Thanks so much.

Keep creating.

Enjoy my interview transcript with Stevee-Rayne Warren. Today, Stevee-Rayne shares a wealth of stories spanning her onset film knowledge, understanding of shifting business models at the studio level, and her passion for community building in the cinematic space. I’ve revised this podcast transcript to keep as much of Stevee-Rayne’s authentic voice intact while tightening for readability and clarity.

Stevee-Rayne Warren In Action

JOSIAH: Tell us again what your favorite part of your job is [at NOVAC, the New Orleans Video Access Center].

STEVEE-RAYNE: My favorite part of my job is again, closing that knowledge gap for people.

Somebody who maybe worked in retail, they loved fashion their whole life… They also love television, but they know they don’t want to be a director.

They don’t want to be an actor. They don’t want to be a producer, but they don’t know that they could actually work in film and work in the place that they’re actually interested in, which is fashion, clothing, styling, and all of that.

So whenever I’m having like, a career consultation with someone, I’m just explaining the different opportunities and that thing, it clicks.

They’re like, Wait, I can do that?

And then when they actually get their first paid internship, PA (production assistant) position, what have you, and they’re on their way— that is my favorite from that start to kind of realization of the potential there.

Favorite thing, without a doubt. Favorite thing (laughs).

JOSIAH: That is cool. You’re marrying that… like, in your example. The retail, like your love of fashion or whatever, with maybe your curiosity or nerd-dom for the film community, and you’re finding a way to like, find a way to marry those two things together.

Or like your example with the electrician earlier. That will work in a different capacity, but you and I definitely know, and those listening, you need G&E. I hope I’m remembering my acronym.

STEVEE-RAYNE: Yeah, absolutely, Grip & Electric.

What NOVAC Offers Aspiring Filmmakers

[Earlier in the Conversation…]

STEVEE-RAYNE: We (NOVAC) work with nonprofits, and we started with some of the nonprofits that the studio was already working with on the CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) side. So if it was an organization that they were donating to, we were like, Well, let’s see if there are folks that will be interested in working in production.

Some of them are, you know, media-centered, like they serve people who want to tell stories, but some of them are moreso on the workforce side. So we’re working with an organization that serves individuals who are formerly incarcerated, but they have a training program in Electrician work or Carpentry, like those are things you could do on a production.

So like, finding those connecting points and identifying skills and like, former jobs that could transfer into production work.

That’s, you didn’t ask it, but that’s like my favorite thing, like my favorite thing about my job. It really, really is, because like I said, you know, this is in the, I guess, in the workforce space, we call production work, low barrier, high wage: because again, you don’t need formal education.

If you choose to go like the Union route, that’s your best bet, right? If you want to eventually be in, I guess a high-power craft position or something like that, you would go the Union route.

So helping people fill that knowledge gap of like what they can do and what opportunities could be afforded to them is like I said, one of my favorite things about my job.

List of Transferable Skills for Film Production

STEVEE-RAYNE: And then people who maybe work in construction, they can work in Scenic Work. I know a lot of visual artists that, you know, eventually they’ll get into the Art Department.

People who have a background in accounting can be a Production Accountant.

I did the Questions thing on Instagram. And I just wanted people to give me a profession, give me a job, and I’ll tell you what job in Production, you know, you could do that type of work.

It was really fun. I love doing it. So I might have to do that again one day. People were very surprised at the job possibilities.

JOSIAH: Can you think of like two or three others that came to mind? Because it’s a fun game, because it’s creating possibility.

STEVEE-RAYNE: Absolutely, absolutely! So one person, they tried to catch me off guard (laughs). Their background was EMT work. I was like, Well, you could be a Set Medic.

You know, or like, somebody had asked about, they had been a teacher, but they were interested in Film. And I was like, Well, you could be a Studio Teacher. Like they need teachers on set [for talent who are minors].

But also, if you’re a teacher, you probably have a lot of patience. You’re probably organized if you’re a good teacher. So you might do well in the AD (Assistant Director) Department. You know what I mean?

So you might do well if you have a lot of administrative skills, you might do well in the production office. So what else? (thinks) There was a lot of them that, you know, definitely those skills can transfer over.

JOSIAH: No, you got me going because I remember I once met Johnny Greens on Insecure. So if you like gardening and things like that, you can bring in the plants, and like they have whole sections of like, We need this plant for Issa’s apartment and Molly has this plant.

And so Johnny had to water them. He had to wheel them in. He had to get them from different places. I don’t know if greenhouses is the right terminology I’m using or…

STEVEE-RAYNE: Like nurseries.

JOSIAH: Nurseries, that’s the word! Or also, he also had a background, he and his uncle with maybe a veterinary background or something with animals. And so some shows, as you know, you might have pets or an episode will have animals, or you’re wrangling them.

And you might have that background with animals or something or… Wow, yeah, my mind just [opened up], that’s a great thing you did. You should do that again!

STEVEE-RAYNE: I think I’m gonna do it again. And people like really, really engaged!

JOSIAH: You also just reminded me of your mom. You said she was a beautician. So she would have done HMU, right? Hair & Makeup?

STEVEE-RAYNE: Yes, funny you mention my mom! Cause any opportunity to talk about my mom, she actually works in production now as a Costumer.

JOSIAH: What? That’s fire!

STEVEE-RAYNE: Yes, yes! (laughs) And I can briefly kind of talk about that cause I’m just so proud of her.

JOSIAH: Go ahead!

STEVEE-RAYNE: So, my mom was a beautician for 25, 30 years. She started to get carpal tunnel in her hand, so she wanted to step away from doing hair. And, oh yeah, so my mom, in the 90s, she was one of the people that could do sew-in. So, you know, Black women, if you listen, she was the Baton Rouge kind of pioneer of sew-in. (laughs)

JOSIAH: Yo! A legend!

STEVEE-RAYNE: Yes, so she went back to college when I was in high school for clothing and textiles because she always loved fashion. And then she immediately went and got her MBA after that as well. And then at that time, I started to intern for NOVAC.

And there was an opportunity for a Costume Intern on Green Book that filmed in Baton Rouge and New Orleans. So she was a Costume Intern for Green Book, which won the Oscar that following year. And then she kind of went back into Hair.

She did a lot of different [things]. My mom is pretty eccentric, but she did a lot of other things. And then she kind of got back into costuming. And now she’s working on a Disney project here in Louisiana as a Costumer.

JOSIAH: Wow!

STEVEE-RAYNE: So when I talk about people transitioning from another industry or another profession, I’m talking like witnessing my mom firsthand do it, you know, and do it successfully.

PS: I also offer film coaching. I’ll help you figure out your film path. Maybe you want to break into one specific role, like a production assistant (PA), writer or actor, etc. I will also help you if you have no idea what you want to do, you just know Film is where you belong. If you’re interested in learning more, drop me a DM or email me at JosiahBWrites@gmail.com. On January 31st, I’m teaching a networking webinar on Zoom for aspiring filmmakers interested in PA work.

Enjoy my vlog showcasing the awesomeness of The Bioscope theater in Johannesburg, South Africa, home to a thriving and growing cinema scene for local and international talent. Pizza, festivals, premieres and more await you at The Bioscope!

More from my time at The Bioscope:

PS: I also offer film coaching. I’ll help you figure out your film path. Maybe you want to break into one specific role, like a production assistant (PA), writer or actor, etc. I will also help you if you have no idea what you want to do, you just know Film is where you belong. If you’re interested in learning more, drop me a DM or email me at JosiahBWrites@gmail.com.

Meet Lungile Mayindi, a film producer and business-owner out of Gauteng, Johannesburg, South Africa.

On my first visit to his beautiful country, I randomly connected with him via LinkedIn a few years ago, while living in Kigali, Rwanda, and was inspired by his candid yet honest postings to push filmmakers to the next level.

He’s the founder of Iron Heart Films, a production, editing, and videography agency, specializing in branding, content creation, and a plethora of other areas.

Not only was it surreal to meet this young brother in person, whose drive inspired me from afar, but to do so in a popular sanctuary for filmmakers I’d seen on IG for years now.

The Bioscope film theater. Soon I’ll post more footage I got of the incredible space (sadly, no auditorium footage, they were in the middle of a screening). The venue hosts festivals, concerts, sells film books and themed merch, and serves pizza and other delicious snacks at the cafe.

No matter where you go in the venue, you’re constantly under the “watchful eye” of an antique film camera or replica. Cameras big (the first one is like 6-feet tall right in the center of the floor) and small decorate the space, resting on tables and bookshelves.

They add a charm any film nerd would love.

Over a hot cup of Rooibos tea (I’m a fan!) and a beer, Lungile regaled me with his impassioned ideas about the South African film business, the latter of which he stressed.

“Film is a business.”

He’s convinced that if more people understood that, it would change the industry as he knows it, giving filmmakers more bite in their stories and control over their products.

“Move millions (of fans) to make millions (of Rand (South African money)).”

It’s what you’ve heard for years, how film yes, is an art form, but so many just don’t care to learn the business, and then quit when things get too hard.

I appreciated Lungile’s candor and enthusiasm. He very much possesses a producer’s mindset.

And he doesn’t just yell and scream at people, he uses his business and online voice to share lessons he too is learning everytime I goes to create a new project.

He doesn’t know it all, but he definitely shares it all, in hopes of equipping tomorrow’s storytellers, both young and old.

We cover a wide variety of topics, such as screenwriting, broadcasting and advertising, marketing ecosystems, government funding, and creative sustainability, just to name a few.

I definitely walked away from this talk smarter and sharper than when I first walked in.

One of my favorite gems Lungile shared is this: film is mostly unregulated.

“You don’t need permission to make your film.”

Timeless wisdom.

I’m so blessed to have had this experience, and I invite you into our conversation.

For chats with more of South Africa’s finest filmmakers, check out my talk with writer/director and founder of SA Film Chronicles, Eddie Ramohlale.

If you want more filmmaker video interviews, you can also find them on my YouTube channel.

PS: I also offer film coaching. I’ll help you figure out your film path. Maybe you want to break into one specific role, like a production assistant (PA), writer or actor, etc. I will also help you if you have no idea what you want to do, you just know Film is where you belong. If you’re interested in learning more, drop me a DM or email me at JosiahBWrites@gmail.com.

That’s just one lesson I learned in Eddie Ramohlale’s crash course in South African cinema history, one Saturday afternoon in Milpark, Johannesburg, one of the region’s main hubs for filmmakers come to create and network together.

Our classroom was The Bioscope, a single-screen theater and cafe nestled safely among the trendy boutique shops, galleries, and restaurants within the 44 Stanley complex, where independent cinema and music from all over Africa, and around the world, come alive!

This was my first time in South Africa. I’d heard about The Bioscope from a family friend, but had been following Eddie Ramohlale online for a couple of years.

He’s the founder of SA Film Chronicles and produces podcasts, films, and covers the latest in South African cinema with his team at various local film premieres.

It was a pleasure to meet Eddie in person and learn more about the rich history of filmmaking in South Africa, what he’s working on now, and the impact that SA Film Chronicles has had in only a few short years.

Thanks for chatting with me, Eddie, and I hope you all enjoy our conversation in the video above!

If you want more filmmaker video interviews like Eddie’s, you’ll find them on my YouTube channel.

PS: I also offer film coaching. I’ll help you figure out your film path. Maybe you want to break into one specific role, like a production assistant (PA), writer or actor, etc. I will also help you if you have no idea what you want to do, you just know Film is where you belong. If you’re interested in learning more, drop me a DM or email me at JosiahBWrites@gmail.com.

Enjoy my interview transcript with Jamie Nash, screenwriter, professor, and prolific author of various works, including: Save the Cat Writes for TV, Save the Cat Writes Horror, and the Save the Cat Beatsheet Workbook. I’ve revised this podcast transcript to keep as much of Jamie’s authentic voice intact while tightening for readability and clarity. You will find this portion of the Apple Podcast interview (above) at timestamp 41:40.

Pre-Internet Filmmaking

JOSIAH: Nowadays, we have CoverFly, but what was available at that time for great writers?

JAMIE: Yeah, so when I was in high school and grade school, nothing. The way I finally got that outlet, I think it’s through playing role-playing games. I would be a dungeon master in D&D or something, or eventually I would go down other routes.

I actually was a street performer for a while and would juggle. I wrote a comedy act, and I changed my comedy act up.

And it was writing that really appealed to me. It was changing the act up and trying to be original, and trying to do things people hadn’t seen before. Even though I kind of enjoyed the performance, I liked the immediacy of getting feedback on the stuff I did.

And I still feel like I always feel that way. I’ve been kind of coming to grips with that lately.

I think as a writer, I’m kind of a performer. It’s just my [audience] reaction is delayed. But I feel like my writing is a performance.

So I’m always kind of thinking about the audience in that regard, whether it be my co-writer or who I’m writing with. I’m always trying to get a pop out of whoever that audience is.

So later on, when I got into screenwriting, honestly, there was not much of anything. I would get Syd Field’s book from the library. The Internet was just starting to come, and it wasn’t great for that stuff.

But eventually the Internet did show up. And I was a computer science major. And I went into computer science.

And strangely enough, it’s another one of those weird things. Even though I wasn’t great at math, I wasn’t a great student, but I was a really good programmer. Who knows why.

I don’t know what the difference was, but it was something that I had a skill at. It was still very similar to writing in a weird sort of way. There’s a lot of the same endorphins and stuff that go into it that I get out of programming that I got from writing.

The Internet started to emerge in the early 2000s, and I always had an eye on screenwriting. I had gotten the books. And one of these books, very influential to me, was by Spike Lee, who wrote Do the Right Thing.

He wrote a book about the making of [Do the Right Thing], and in the back, he had the screenplay.

He was another person who was a little older than me, but close enough that I was like, If he can pull this off, how’s he doing this? And he was doing it on the super high level with Do the Right Thing.

But I was like, I wonder if I could somehow pull this off, because he [Spike Lee] seems like an ordinary guy. He’s just doing it with his friends and applying his skills. And he was showing how he’s doing it [in his book].

He was sharing the love. So I think Spike Lee started to influence me, and I thought, Well, maybe I could write a screenplay, too.

Maybe I could do that part, because I looked at that and I started to research on the Internet. And a little bit of information was showing up at that point on the Internet, like you could get Final Draft.

There were some contests. There weren’t a ton. I know there was like Blue Cat. The Nickel Fellowship, of course, was around back then. The Austin Film Festival was around back then.

So at first, honestly - me writing - it was all about making my own movie, like Spike Lee did, like Sam Raimi did, like eventually Kevin Smith did. That’s all I cared about.

I didn’t think I could sell anything. So everything I wrote in my brain was something I was gonna make one day, or maybe I could make. Or maybe I could trick people into making.

There was some kind of version that I was always gonna make something.

But I didn’t really write those things. Like Kevin Smith wrote something he could make. I wasn’t writing things I could make.

I just couldn’t bring myself to write that thing that I could make. And I think that’s when I started to realize, Oh, maybe I’m a writer and not a filmmaker or director. Cause I need to keep writing.

I’m more into writing things than forcing myself to write something producible.

JOSIAH: Oh, that’s a great distinction. Cause yeah, a lot of young filmmakers definitely struggle with it.

I’ve definitely struggled with that too. Where your imagination runs wild, and you’re supposed to write this short film that’s producible, but you want explosions, and you don’t ground it in reality.

Over time, I had to learn to rein it in.

Small Things Are Powerful

JAMIE: So I teach screenwriting at Towson University. But I also teach at MICA, the Maryland Institute College of the Arts.

And at the Maryland Institute College of the Arts, a lot of times I see students who do their thesis projects. And that’s like a year-long process where they write a script. And a lot of them come in with scripts, and they think: I’m gonna do an hour-long script!

They say: It’s gonna have all these big elements, sci-fi elements and stuff like that.

They think it’s because it’s their thesis, it has to be big, and it has to be large.

And I’m like, No, but bring all your powers to bear on the smallest possible thing, to make it the best lighting, the best sound, the best actors, the best directing, the best concept.

Bring that all to bear on two minutes of something, not 30 minutes or 40 minutes or something. I don’t care if it’s in one room. It’s more you bringing all your powers to bear on that one room, one shot, one thing.

And they always think that that’s not big enough for a thesis - but that’s hard enough. Most people can’t pull off that one room small thing.

And honestly, back in the late 90s, early 2000s, I thought I was writing that small thing. But I kept writing things that were much bigger, that I could never ever pull off.

And I realized that right away. Every time I’d write one, I’m like, I can’t do that.

I just realized I wasn’t writing the things I could make myself. And then I was like, Maybe I’m just a writer. Maybe I need to find a way to sell these.

Maybe these are valuable to somebody else who has money. I only had $10,000 or $20,000. Maybe if you had $500,000 or a million dollars, these things could get made!

JOSIAH: Was that hard to do, letting go of that? Or was it easy once you figured it out?

JAMIE: It’s interesting. So I made a feature film around then. So I think in the back of my mind, I thought, I can do five of these and I’ll find one eventually for myself.

When I made a feature film, it taught me the biggest lesson. It taught me I’m a writer. Making a feature film taught me I was a writer.

And it wasn’t that I didn’t have the skills. I would rather write five things in one year than do one thing in two years.

And that’s what I found, that feature filmmakers really have to be obsessed with one thing. One thing in two years.

And that’s just not my mindset as much. I just can’t do that as much. So it wasn’t that hard once I learned that lesson.

The thing I loved was doing multiple projects.

Fearless Filmmaking

JOSIAH: That’s awesome. In addition to that, anything you’d add about your first experience as a writer or a slash filmmaker director?

JAMIE: Yeah, I made a movie. And again, this is the culmination of like what I always wanted to do, because I was a full-time computer programmer at this point when I made this.

And the one advantage of being a full-time computer programmer was that I had money to blow on my stupid movie. You know, I wasn’t like Kevin Smith, who had to take his credit cards and max them out.

I was making OK money. I was a computer programmer, and I was single at the time, and I didn’t have any kids.

I was like, Some people go on a vacation and play golf. And I do this stupid thing, this movie.

So I made this ridiculous horror movie, schlocky horror movie, intentionally so, based on the kind of movies I loved as a DIY (do it yourself) filmmaker. These low-budget cheap movies. I mean, we had a budget of $20,000.

So we made the schlocky horror movie called Two Front Teeth. And Two Front Teeth is a vampire Santa Claus movie, and it’s very silly. It has lots of puns and Christmas stuff, and it’s really goofy.

And at the time, in the DVD market, we had a lot of friends around us that were making these DVD movies - and they were making money off of them!

They’d make them for twenty, thirty, forty thousand dollars, and they’d sell them for a hundred to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

And it was actually a business model that existed back then because they’d end up in all the Blockbusters stores, and they’d make anywhere from one hundred to two hundred thousand dollars!

And once you made one, you could just keep making them.

And I had friends that made careers of it, and they just made one after another. These are really bad movies. And my movie was really bad, too (laughs).

But when I looked at what theirs was… I think I thought they were playing it safe a little bit. Mine was completely ridiculous.

Like that was my idea, I’m just going to go completely ridiculous and make like the dumbest thing I could imagine! And just any joke, anything goes. I was going to try to do things I had no business doing. It was going to be very DIY.

And then the DVD market kind of crashed right before we finished!

So yeah, so nobody really ever saw it. It’s funny, people find it now. Like Red Letter Media found it a few years ago and they put it out there.

They put it on their Best of the Worst, and like a million people watched their show on it, and then everybody wanted to watch it. There was really no way to get it.

I actually put it on YouTube, and you can find it there. It had a distributor, but we never made any money from the distributor.

You know, I got a report once they sold like 1500 copies or something. And all of that went to the poster art or something. You know, it was one of those ridiculous deals.

But I mean, people that watch the movie love it because it is one of those “so bad, it’s good” kind of movies.

But it taught me a lot - it took me a long time to complete. I mean, as cheeseball and goofy and not even that great technically, as that movie is. It took a year or so of my life, a year and a half of my life worrying about that thing.

And then there’s even the business side, like maintaining your LLC and getting contracts and selling, doing that and sending it out to the festivals and all the other stuff you have to do.

That wasn’t as interesting to me as sitting down and writing and cranking something out in three months!

And then, yeah, letting somebody else worry about all that other stuff. So anyway, that’s my long spiel on my first film.

It was kind of fearless in some ways. Like I wasn’t thinking about anybody or anything. I was just doing it for all of the silliest and rightest of reasons.

You know, like, Oh, this is the thing I always wanted to do. I’m going to go do it. I’m going to do something that the other people aren’t doing as much.

TL:DR

Sometimes, you have to try a thing or two to find out what you really care about and create that.

Sometimes you have to be a couple of different people to meet who you truly are deep down inside.

You’re not making irreparable mistakes or wasting time. You’re learning lessons.

As Miles Davis once said, “It takes a while to find out what you sound like.”

Thanks for revisiting my conversation with Jamie Nash. I hope you enjoyed these excerpts and that they’ve inspired your work going forward.

The past couple of weeks, I’d been randomly thinking about Jamie’s story and how he pivoted after directing his first feature film.

He didn’t let discouragement or what anybody else thinks push him over the edge, or make him quit altogether. Instead, he went boldly in the direction he is most passionate about.

Writing stories and creating as many of them as often as he can - period.

And if you look him up, you’ll find loads of books and series spanning various genres. There’s a little something for everyone, from SciFi, to Pirate stories to screenwriting lessons.

If you enjoyed listening to my podcast interview with him, you have to check out his screenwriting analysis with his friends on their show, Writers/Blockbusters!

And definitely read his book, Save the Cat Writes for TV, it’ll blow your mind, I love that book!

Keep creating, everyone!

PS: I also offer film coaching. I’ll help you figure out your film path. Maybe you want to break into one specific role, like a production assistant (PA), writer or actor, etc. I will also help you if you have no idea what you want to do, you just know Film is where you belong. If you’re interested in learning more, drop me a DM or email me at JosiahBWrites@gmail.com.

When I interviewed Amber Bickham (we met on the set of HBO’s Insecure), I asked her point-blank: Is Film School Necessary?

“No”, she said. “Because it depends on what you want to do and how good you want to be at it.”

She continued to offer encouragement, admonishing actors in this specific case, not to give up or feel they can’t achieve their dreams if Film School is too expensive. She reminded me that there are some jobs and roles in filmmaking that students won’t even learn in college, so you have to be creative.

I remember people like Ava DuVernay and Quentin Tarantino, both of whom are big Hollywood names, but neither ever studied film at the university level.

Instead, they taught themselves.

When asked if she would recommend any films or books, Amber shrugged and laughed that life itself has been the biggest teacher in her film career.

But she quickly added that aspiring filmmakers and actors should read Devon Franklin’s book, Produced By Faith, which she says offers helpful guidance regarding socializing and seeing the baseline of Hollywood if that’s where you’re interested in going.

Amber's advice is to trust the most important thing - one’s gift.

And in the long run, trying to emulate books and another creator’s point of view won’t help you.

Learn craft, but don’t bury your light under opinions and books. If you have the gift and the drive, you need to pour into that.

Six Lessons for Actors

1. Utilize Actor’s Access if you do not live in LA

2. If college is too expensive, don’t feel you can’t achieve your film dream

3. Some jobs you won’t learn in film school

4. You can be self-taught

5. Read Produced By Faith by Devon Franklin
   + Socialize
   + Stay in position
   + See the baseline of Hollywood

6. Trust your gift, don’t try to copy anyone else's point of view

Amber is a film and television producer in Los Angeles who primarily works with actors on projects like Black Jesus and In Living Color.

You can listen to our full interview about actors and producing on my show, linked below.

Enjoy my interview transcript with Kira Talise, a former Staff Writer on Insecure, whom I met on the set of Season 5. Each write-up spotlights a screenwriting question with Kira’s insights, keeping her authentic voice intact while tightening for readability and clarity.

Question #7 - Jay asks:

Where do you get inspiration for stories from, and how do those inspirations play into your daily writing process?

KIRA: It depends on what your process is, for sure. What I will say is that I draw from life all the time.

If I’m writing a scene about an argument, trust and believe, I’m either pulling from an argument that I had or witnessed, or I’m pulling from the archive of things that I left the argument with.

And I’m like, Damn, I wish I had said that, that would have killed ‘em! Like I’m pulling from lived experience, right?

If I’m writing about love and romance, I’m either pulling from, again, something that I lived and experienced myself, something that I witnessed, or something aspirational.

Something that I wish had gone this way, or I wish it had gone that way.

So I really just think that, and Prentice Prenny (the Insecure showrunner) might have said this too, but in order to write about life, you have to be living it.

You have to be living it.

You could just be observing it, but I think it’s better if you're out there living it.

That’s where work-life balance comes in and all of those things.

People always say, Write what you know. And there’s a reason why people say that.

It’s because if you know it, you’ve lived it; if you’ve experienced it, you have a place, an archive, or a reservoir to pull from.

And I think that that’s where that authenticity that we’re all talking about and striving for comes from.

That’s a series wrap on Kira Talise’s seven tips for aspiring television writers!

I remember talking with her fresh off the production wrap of Insecure. And if you saw the series’ making-of documentary, then you know it was all the way live, but also emotional.

Somehow, I managed not to cry in a corner somewhere, because working on Issa Rae’s show was a dream of mine for years!

Not only did God see to it that I got to work on production and learn so many filmmaking lessons, but I got to meet so many remarkably talented people like Kira — AND Issa Rae herself!

You can hear all about that and my on-set experience RIGHT HERE.

And speaking of the show, if you want to hear the full conversation with Kira Talise, you can do so by clicking the link below!

The interview includes more stories from Kira about her screenwriting journey that you won’t want to miss (the seven tips start at the 38:34-minute mark).

Want Kira’s seven tips in eBook format?

Send me a DM requesting it, and I’ll send you the PDF completely free!

Transcribing this conversation was a lot of fun, and I enjoyed sharing it with you all and reviewing these screenwriting lessons for myself. And I hope you learned as much as I did, and more!

Let me know if you’d be interested in more write-ups like these in the comments, and I’ll see you next time.

Thank you to the amazing listeners who submitted such great questions to the show for Kira!

And to Kira? Thanks again for all the gems you shared with us.

Kira Talise is a storyteller born and bred in Los Angeles, California, and was shaped by classic Black 90’s TV shows, and now boasts credits on modern-day classics, like HBO’s Insecure.

Having risen through the ranks quickly as a Script Coordinator and now Staff Writer, she is more focused than ever to run her own writers’ rooms and bring her stories to life.

Today, she shares her journey as a writer and answers burning listener questions about the art and business of television screenwriting in Hollywood.

Enjoy my interview transcript with Kira Talise, a former Staff Writer on Insecure, whom I met on the set of Season 5. Each write-up spotlights a screenwriting question with Kira’s insights, keeping her authentic voice intact while tightening for readability and clarity.

Question #6 - Yanna asks:

What’s the best advice (personal & professional) you’ve ever been given? And do you recommend the college route, and is it necessary to succeed in film?

Real College Advice

KIRA: I’ve gone to school, but I have not graduated from the school.

And that used to be something that I was not necessarily proud of, not necessarily ashamed of, but definitely not proud of. And what I will say is that that route is not for everyone.

And yes, you can have success without it. I think it’s a personal choice.

I think that you need to do what makes sense for you, for your personality, for your pocketbook, for your goals, and for your timeline that you set for yourself.

But there are ways to be successful without it.

And this is what I tell my own children: I think a lot of times, school is where you find out who you want to be — if you want to go.

What kind of person do you want to be? What kind of career do you want to have?

That’s sort of the opportunity to do the trial and error without suffering huge consequences in an ideal situation.

And so when you don’t go to school, now you’re in that same limbo without the structure of the school. So you’re like, not a child, not quite an adult, trying to figure it out.

So the most important thing to do is to really put some plans in place to figure this out.

Look for internships, volunteer, do whatever you have to do to expose yourself to whatever it is that you think you want to do in Film, so that you can try to circumvent the school aspect.

You’re not going to become a doctor without going to school, right? But you can absolutely become a screenwriter without going to school.

Get out there and live though, because if you’re not going to have the formal “training” or “education”, you need the life experience to balance that out.

So that’s on the college route.

Best Career Advice

KIRA: I’m crediting Prentice Penny (the Insecure showrunner) with this. It’s two pieces of advice.

And the first part is being precious about our work. As creatives and as artists.

Eryka Badu said it best, “I’m an artist and I’m sensitive about my shit”, right? And I think that most of us can relate to that.

And what happens in a writer’s room is that, even if it’s your own show, you can be sensitive about your stuff, but you'd better learn how to take a note, be nimble, and not die on every hill.

Learn how to be collaborative, because you’re always answering to somebody - a studio head, a network, whatever.

So you have to learn how to not be so precious.

And the thing that Prentice told me was that, especially to the lower-level writer coming into a showrunner’s room: this is the showrunner’s baby. This is not your baby.

What he told me was to look at the showrunner as an artist. Ideally, this artist has curated a room of writers where a writer could essentially represent a different color.

And it’s up to the showrunner. The showrunner knows what the end picture is gonna be. The colors may not. The showrunner knows what his vision is.

And so you might be pink, and he might only want to use green today. And every day you show up as pink, but all he wants to use is green.

So it can be frustrating because you’re like, Why are you only using green? I’m here, I’m pink, use me!

But it’s your job is to show up every day as pink until the showrunner wants to use pink. And hopefully that chance will come.

Maybe it won’t. Maybe he only wants to use greens and blues, but you still have to show up as pink, and not be precious about it.

So I was really glad he shared that with me before I was ever even staffed. And so my very first room, I went in and I checked my ego at the door.

I’m here to deliver this man’s vision, whatever that may be.

So that doesn’t mean I take myself completely out of it. That doesn’t mean I don’t pitch my ideas. That doesn’t mean that I am following blindly or doing anything that really conflicts with my moral compass or anything like that.

That just means that I have an opinion, and I can share it.

And he has an option to take it and take heed to it, or to take it and pass on it. And whatever it is, I still have to deliver; that’s my job, to deliver at the end of the day. So that was really helpful.

The other thing that Prentice said to me was that you have to look at these shows and these rooms as bricks. In each room you’re in, you’re just collecting a brick.

And all you need to do is come in, be your color, show up, do your job, collect your brick until you have enough bricks to go build your own house.

And ultimately, that’s what we all wanna do, is be able to build our own house, have our own shows, run shit our way. But at this point, when you’re in these other rooms working for these other people, you’re there to do a job.

And it is a job, even though it’s a great job and a fun job to have.

Do the job to the best of your ability. Do what is asked of you, do what is required of you, and bring your best you to the table every day.

Even if you feel like your pitches aren’t being heard as much as you want, or your voice isn’t being heard as much as you want, that doesn’t mean shut up. Keep coming, keep showing up, figure out a way to make that work.

And then at the end of the show, as long as my credits are where they’re supposed to be, and my direct deposit clears every Friday, Baby, I’m here (laughs). What do you need me to do?

I’m not going to make a fuss about it, you know? And I’m going to keep working until I have enough bricks to go build my own thing.

That’s a wrap on Part 6!

Next is Part 7, the series finale 😉

Kira will talk about inspiration for writers and her personal muses.

Kira Talise is a storyteller born and bred in Los Angeles, California, and was shaped by classic Black 90’s TV shows, and now boasts credits on modern-day classics, like HBO’s Insecure.

Having risen through the ranks quickly as a Script Coordinator and now Staff Writer, she is more focused than ever to run her own writers’ rooms and bring her stories to life.

Today, she shares her journey as a writer and answers burning listener questions about the art and business of television screenwriting in Hollywood.

Enjoy my interview transcript with Kira Talise, a former Staff Writer on Insecure, whom I met on the set of Season 5. Each write-up spotlights a screenwriting question with Kira’s insights, keeping her authentic voice intact while tightening for readability and clarity.

Question #5 - Simone asks:

What ratio of original pilot-spec scripts should be in my portfolio?

KIRA: I would say, what genre are you interested in writing?

And I hate when people ask me that question (laughs), because I don’t want to be just a Comedy writer or just a Drama writer, or just a Dramedy writer.

I just want to write.

And sometimes I want to write something more dramatic. And my stories are typically about Black people living Black-ass lives.

Sometimes it’ll be dramatic, and sometimes it’ll be romantic. I love to tell stories about families. And, of course, I love telling women-driven stories.

But, is that a genre? Because I don’t think that that’s Drama, Comedy, or Dramedy, right?

Having said that, what I can say is: identify the kind of stories that you want to tell — and then write that.

Whatever it is that you think you want to write, have a sample of that in your portfolio. If you think you want to write Animation, write an Animation script, even if it’s a spec of something that already exists.

I’m still a person who is submitting scripts to other people to review. So I have asked some of my showrunners, like, Would you rather see a spec, would you rather see original? I feel like, across the board, people prefer original content for sure.

But write a spec, if you have to write a spec, it’s better to have some sample than no sample at all.

If you’re going to write a spec, write one of a show that is in the vein of what you want to get hired to write — think career writing.

That way, you’ll be better prepared if you get an opportunity to get in front of a showrunner, producer, or whoever can help you get staffed in one of those writers’ rooms.

Let’s say your dream show is Shameless. Well, write something like Shameless!

Make it up yourself, but write something that has that tone and those kinds of characters, so that you have a real-life example of the thing that you think you want to do.

An example of the show you want to write for, or create.

And if there are 10 different types of shows, 10 different genres, then your portfolio should include a sample of each of those 10 things.

If you like Magical Realism, have a Magical Realism sample in your portfolio.

If you like Hard Comedy, have a Hard Comedy.

If you like Procedural shows, write an ER-style script.

Make something up and then write that, so that when you have that opportunity, you’re ready for it.

Let’s define “On Spec”: that means Speculative.

It’s your take when writing in the vein of a show that you love, and it’s going to be original, because that episode doesn’t exist. And you’re writing and submitting it.

The first spec that I wrote was at the end of Insecure Season Two. I wrote what would have been my take on Insecure Season Three, Episode One. I knew what the cliffhangers were.

And I answered the question, What is my take on what could happen potentially in the first episode of the third season, and that’s what I wrote.

Here ends Part 5.

In Part 6, Kira answers the age-old question: is Film School really necessary?

Kira Talise is a storyteller born and bred in Los Angeles, California, and was shaped by classic Black 90’s TV shows, and now boasts credits on modern-day classics, like HBO’s Insecure.

Having risen through the ranks quickly as a Script Coordinator and now Staff Writer, she is more focused than ever to run her own writers’ rooms and bring her stories to life.

Today, she shares her journey as a writer and answers burning listener questions about the art and business of television screenwriting in Hollywood.

Enjoy my interview transcript with Kira Talise, a former Staff Writer on Insecure, whom I met on the set of Season 5. Each write-up spotlights a screenwriting question with Kira’s insights, keeping her authentic voice intact while tightening for readability and clarity.

Question #4 - Ernest asks:

How do you turn a good story into a treatment/script?

KIRA: I used to… I thought that I didn’t need to outline. I could just sit down and start writing. And I can…

And then what’ll happen is a few pages in… could be three, could be 10, could be 13. I realized, I don’t know where I’m going with this.

Where am I going with this?

Where does the story turn? Where’s the arc? I didn’t know, because I was missing that roadmap, which is essentially what a treatment or outline is.

And so this is something that I learned in an Insecure writer’s room, but the first thing we start doing is Blue Sky it.

What are all the possibilities of what could happen for these characters? What are all the different scenarios they could be in? What are all the different spaces?

These two characters might be in, or what are their arcs for the episode, for the season, for the series, whatever?

Just Blue Sky: brainstorming the best-case scenario and worst-case scenario. What could possibly happen?

And then from there, we would start to arc out each episode, right? What does the story journey look like?

So we know that in episode one, we want to do this. We know that in episode 10, we need to get to this. What are episodes 2 through 9 to get us to where our ending point is in 10?

Then, as you write, things reveal themselves and things change, and you edit and you change your mind or whatever, but you kind of have to have that roadmap.

Once you drill that down, you start with the individual episodes.

What needs to happen in this episode? What is this character’s story? What is that character’s story - everyone’s story. Where do they converge? Where do we need to get them by the end of the episode?

Then we would write a rough outline as a group. This is every scene; this is kind of what needs to happen.

Next, the author of the episode would take that and write a really detailed outline.

And that might have some dialogue in it or some joke pitches in it. But it would just flesh out every scene in paragraph form.

So literally, we would write that in Final Draft, which is screenwriting software that everyone should know.

And it would be a slughead, you know: EXT. BARBER SHOP - DAY ONE (exterior barbershop day - day one).

Then this is the paragraph of what needs to happen in that scene. And you would do that for every scene until the end of the episode.

Once you go from a treatment to that outline stage, the ideal is to take that outline that has a paragraph or two for every single scene, from cold-open or from the very first scene, to the very last scene.

And then you just write that out. You take that paragraph and you parse it out.

What’s the dialogue that needs to happen? What are the actions that need to happen in between? And it makes writing so much easier.

And I thought to myself: Oh, okay, this hard work that I’ve been avoiding is actually causing me to have to do more work on the back-end because I’m trying to avoid doing it.

So the main thing is to get the rough idea down on paper, and keep refining, keep refining, keep refining, until you can get to the outline stage, to the script stage.

And hopefully, if you’ve done a really good job of that, you’ve created a roadmap that makes it “easier” to do the actual writing, to get it into a script draft.

JOSIAH: Dear readers, that’s a wrap on Part 4.

You can read the outline of the pilot (first) episode of Insecure right here.

If you want to go deeper, download the pilot script here and read along as the outline plays out as a fully fleshed-out scripted episode.

In Part 5, Kira discusses drafting original pilot scripts and how to create your writing portfolio.

Kira Talise is a storyteller born and bred in Los Angeles, California, and was shaped by classic Black 90’s TV shows, and now boasts credits on modern-day classics, like HBO’s Insecure.

Having risen through the ranks quickly as a Script Coordinator and now Staff Writer, she is more focused than ever to run her own writers’ rooms and bring her stories to life.

Today, she shares her journey as a writer and answers burning listener questions about the art and business of television screenwriting in Hollywood.